TALKING BOOKS

Rachna Singh, Editor, The Wise Owl talks to Simrita Dhir about her book, 'The Song of Distant Bulbuls.'

Talking Books
With Simrita Dhir
Rachna Singh, Editor, The Wise Owl, talks to Simrita Dhir, a Duke of Edinburgh Gold Standard Awardee. Simrita received her PhD in American Literature from the Department of English and Cultural Studies, Panjab University, Chandigarh. She now lives with her husband and their son in San Diego, California, where she studied Advanced Rhetoric at the Department of Rhetoric & Writing Studies, San Diego State University. Simrita lectures at the Warren Writing Program, University of California, San Diego, and is the author of the novel The Rainbow Acres.
In this conversation, Simrita talks about her journey of writing and publishing her second and latest novel The Song of Distant Bulbuls, which has been published by Speaking Tiger Books.
RS: Thank you, Simrita, for taking with The Wise Owl about your novel The Song of Distant Bulbuls. The novel is inspired by true events. Can you share what first sparked the idea for this story and how much of it is drawn from real-life accounts?
​
SD: As a student of literature and history, I have been keenly interested in writing historical fiction because historical fiction offers us a deeper, more nuanced understanding of history, expands perspectives by offering a window into another time period and fosters critical thinking by prompting readers to question ‘the single story.’
​
There are some phases of history that have been particularly fascinating to me, such as the Second World War, the aftermath of the Second World War, the rising Indian National Movement, the Independence of India, and the emergence of Modern India. I have been exploring these phases of history since I was a teenager, thereby gaining deeper perspectives on that time period. The Song of Distant Bulbuls has been set in this pivotal time, in the year 1946, which was a significant year in World History as well as in Indian history. The Second World War had drawn to a close and the Indian National Movement was at its peak.
The novel has been inspired by true events and I will mention here without giving away the story that the basic premise of the novel has been inspired by a deeply personal story, which is very close to my heart and by unveiling this narrative, I have attempted to present that story to the world. I want to emphasize here that though the novel is inspired by true events from my family history, it is entirely a work of fiction and not a direct retelling of my family story.
RS: How did you come up with the title of the novel?
​
SD: A lot of thought went into the title. Bulbuls are songbirds in Punjab. They are symbols of beauty and their song is a testament to the resilience and courage, the aesthetics and loveliness of Punjab, its culture, fields, festivals, crafts, and traditions. Sammi and Hari Singh bond over the song of the bulbuls. In Sammi’s mind, the song of the bulbuls emerges as an emblem of love and bliss, which has become distant from her since Hari Singh’s departure. She can hear the bulbuls, but the song is always distant just as happiness has come to elude her. In one of his letters to Sammi, Hari Singh speaks of the monogamous nature of bulbuls and how he and Sammi are separated by time and space but conjoined forever by the rapturous song of the bulbuls. In a broader sense, the title alludes to the strength and beauty of Punjab at a particularly turbulent time in history.
​
RS: Your novel is set against the backdrop of the Indian Independence movement and the turbulence of pre-Partition India. How did you research the historical and cultural nuances of this period?
​
SD: The story spans rural Punjab, the Princely City of Patiala, and the Southeast Asian Theatre of the Second World War. It explores themes of love, friendship, and the search for happiness, posing questions about the nature of love and the human experience.
​
A lot of research has gone into the writing of the narrative. I researched extensively about the time period drawing from history books and tracts, oral narratives and memory. Political history was obviously significant since that informs the backdrop of the story; I also tried to inform myself about the social, cultural and economic history of the time because that is equally as important as it shows how people spoke, behaved, dressed, ate and why they chose to take the decisions that they did. As a keen student of history, I have been deeply responsive to the social implications of telling a historical story, therefore the emphasis all along was on the fact that at no point, should history be misappropriated.
RS: The novel explores deep philosophical questions about love and happiness. How do these themes shape Sammi’s journey, and what message do you hope readers take away from her story?
​
SD: Sammi, is the chief protagonist of the story. Her dilemma is central to the narrative. Like the legendary Punjabi folk heroine, Heer, Sammi rises in the face of adversity to personify the spirit of Punjab and the resilience of India at a defining time in history. She fumbles and falls only to rise again and prevail. Sammi’s paternal aunt Jeeti Bhua has a compelling story of fortitude in the face of patriarchal injustice and in Sammi’s mother Bibi, readers will encounter a complex and an unforgettable character shaped by the social and cultural complications of the time period. The stories of both women consciously and unconsciously influence Sammi’s evolution through the novel.
​
Jasjit and Hari Singh are significant characters in the novel and share a deep bond with Sammi. They are conscientious men, who are responsive to everything that is going on around them. They draw from their agrarian roots and Sikh beliefs to combat adversity. They are brave representatives of the Indian middle class, which played a significant role in the Indian National movement and later in the building of modern India. Both have an indelible impact on Sammi’s psyche and consciousness.
Kirpal and Bachan Singh embody the Jat Sikh man’s quest for land in places far and near. The friendship of Kirpal and Bachan Singh is at once spontaneous and sensitive, evoking a strong emotional resonance, but as readers will realize all too soon, their friendship is not entirely free of motives. Interestingly, Sammi is integral to that friendship and it is the friendship of Kirpal and Bachan Singh that drives Sammi’s story and the novel’s plot.
​
Juxtaposed to that friendship is Jasjit’s friendship with Zulfi Sheikh, which transcends socio-economic, religious and cultural barriers to manifest an unforgettable secular face of Pre-partition India. Professor Shaukat Rehman and his daughter Nafisa are also faces of an inclusive and diverse Pre-partition India.
​
Through Sammi and the many characters that appear in the novel, I have attempted to present India on the brink of Independence by bringing to light a bygone era in Indian history. The complexity of the family structure in the story holds a mirror to the complex times in which the story evolves. The family members align and misalign, bonding with one another as well as letting one another down. Eventually overcoming anguish, resentment, guilt and anger, they come together, their innate honesty coming to bind them. So, really, in more ways than one, family forms the moral center of the novel.
RS: Aliwala, the village where Sammi lives, is described as a syncretic hamlet with Sufi bearings. Could you elaborate on the significance of this setting and its reflection of Punjab’s diverse cultural fabric?
​
SD: Sufism comes into play through the length of the story. The village where much of the story unfurls is Aliwala; it sits along the banks of the river Ghaggar in the Malwa region of Punjab. The patron saint of the village is the great Sufi saint of Punjab, Ali Hujwiri.
​
There is a shrine in the village to honor the patron saint and at the time of the annual autumnal anniversary of the Sufi saint, there is singing and rejoicing in the village; these celebrations that take place on the shrine of Ali Hujwiri in Aliwala are similar to the festivities that take place at the shrine of Ali Hujwiri in Lahore. Ali Hujwiri is popularly referred to by the villagers as Data Ganj Baksh, bestower of bounties, and later in the novel, when the narrative flashes forward to the year 1947, readers are offered a glimpse of the great shrine of Ali Hujwiri in Lahore as well.
The characters in the novel exhibit Sufi tendencies at pivotal moments in the story, sometimes to the surprise of the readers. Sammi manifests the two outstanding Sufi tendencies of Ishk, which is intense love, and Bagawat, which is the spirit of rebellion. Jasjit exhibits another facet of Sufism, which is self-effacing service for the nation, the community and family. Sammi’s father, Babuji, too, manifests Sufi tendencies when he practices kindness and benevolence. Kirpal exhibits Sufi tendencies of kindness and tolerance when he is touched by romantic love. In her acceptance of circumstances, Jeeti Bhua, comes to personify Sufi tendencies of stoicism and inner strength. And when readers will encounter Bachan Singh for who he truly is, he, too, presents to us this wonderful aspect of Sufiana Ishk that he professes to practice.
In closing, I would like to say that not only does the village uphold the patron Sufi saint of the village, but all the significant characters in the novel, step forward to exhibit Sufi tendencies at vital moments in the story, enhancing the plot and driving the story in unexpected directions.
RS: Sammi’s resilience is central to the novel. What aspects of her character do you think will resonate most with readers?
​
SD: Sammi’s unfailing spirit of self-reliance serves as an example of believing in oneself to overcome ordeals rather than accepting catastrophes as the hands of fate. By never giving in to the challenges posed by family, society, religion and political upheaval, Sammi emerges as a rebel heroine of the early twentieth century. Alongside dedicated men like Jasjit and Hari Singh, Sammi, impresses as a focused, hardworking and resilient woman who will go on to shape a brave and independent India.
​
So, by highlighting the strength of women in a man’s world, the spirit, culture and agrarian ethos of Punjab, the gradual progression of Punjabi society from rural to urban setups, the novel salutes the indomitable will of Punjab and the extraordinary contributions of the land and its people to the Indian National Movement, the Independence of India and the building of Modern India.
​
RS: The novel features complex relationships, particularly among siblings and between different communities. How did you balance the personal and the political in the story.
SD: The novel opens in January 1946, and readers are introduced to 23-year-old Sammi. She was married to an officer of the British Indian Army, Lt. Hari Singh, in the autumn of 1939. Barely 21 days after her marriage, Hari Singh was summoned to fight in the Southeast Asian theatre of the Second World War. Now it has been months since the Second World War has ended, but there is no word of Hari Singh, who has not been gone from nearly seven years.
​
Sammi has been awaiting Hari Singh’s return in her parental village, Aliwala, a syncretic hamlet with Sufi bearings in the hinterland of Punjab. Caught between her two feuding brothers, the conscientious Jasjit and the ambitious Kirpal, Sammi perseveres in the face of the uncertainty that looms over her.
​
As a determined India makes a concerted bid for freedom from the British, Jasjit worries for his sister, Sammi’s mounting agony and the rising Indian National Movement converging in his mind. Also weighing upon him is the lament that Indian Independence will sever age-old communal bonds and separate him from his brother-like friend Zulfi Sheikh.
​
In the changing political scenario, Kirpal seeks desperately to solidify his personal and social standing by coercing Sammi to marry his boyhood friend, the influential Bachan Singh. The question is will Sammi be forced into a second marriage with Bachan Singh? Or will she muster the courage to step out of the narrow alleys of Aliwala in search of a new life?
​
The novel presents a saga of immutable love and deep friendships, human bonding and failing; it attempts to balance the personal and the political by presenting individual struggles in such a way that it would lead to a deeper understanding of the political realities of the time period while also lending insights into the great human experience. The novel poses epic questions: is happiness an elusive goal? How does one know right from wrong? Is love the ultimate aim of human life or a means to something else? What does it take to realize who one truly loves and how much?
RS: Given that The Song of Distant Bulbuls takes readers across rural Punjab, Patiala, and the WWII front in Southeast Asia, how did you approach weaving these diverse locations into a cohesive narrative?
​
SD: A lot of stories about the Second World War have been presented over the years as the grand narrative of the colonizer, celebrating the Allied success in the Middle east, Mediterranean and the Southeast Asian theatres of the war. In presenting this novel, I have attempted to make a dent in that dominant narrative and uncover the truth of that ‘single story’ by focusing on the struggles at the home front by throwing spotlight on the families of Indian Army personnel who were fighting in the Second World War on behalf of the British Empire. I believe it is really time that we brought forth our stories of courage and resilience, which have been for far too long submerged under the weight of the meta narrative. The truth is that the Allied success in the Second World War would not have been possible if not for courage and sacrifice of the 2.5 million Indians who fought in the various theatres of the war. The novel is a subaltern narrative, wherein the mindset and ideology of the colonized people is presented.
​
Hari Singh is serving in the British India Army, but he is a nationalist at heart. The fact that he is fighting in the British Indian Army doesn’t imply that he is oblivious to the struggles of the nation. At a significant point in the story, he questions his British commanding officer as to when the British would leave India, expressing his desire to serve in the sovereign army of his own nation. He draws sustenance from his Sikh ethos as he perseveres in the Southeast Asian theatre of the Second World War.
Jasjit, too, presents the agony of the colonized man when he reflects on the glorious history of India and the plight that the British have brought upon India. Towards the end of the novel, when it becomes all but evident that India would attain independence, Jasjit takes it upon himself to strive for the most advanced India that he can possibly contribute to the making of.
​
The novel offers windows into rural and urban India of the time while also offering vignettes of the turbulence that was roaring across the globe. It unfurls largely in the back waters of Punjab, where Sammi and Hari Singh’s families live and offers the readers glimpses of the struggles of rural Indians in the face of the rising political turmoil in the nation. The novel is also partly set in the Princely city of Patiala and showcases the lives of people in the city by capturing their responses to the rising Indian National Movement and the looming partition of the country. By taking the readers into the Southeast Asian Theater of the Second World War and the Changi Prison Camp, the novel offers an international perspective on this deeply turbulent time in history. In weaving these diverse locations into a single narrative, my attempt was to present a wide and deep understanding of the global turbulence of the time and how that forever altered the face of the Indian Subcontinent and the world at large.
​
In closing, I want to say that the novel is a post-colonial novel, presenting a quest for justice. It seeks to present the lived experiences, dilemmas and peculiar predicaments of the colonized people by highlighting the Sikh and Indian contributions to the Allied success in the Second World War and by highlighting the suffering of women and families on the home front.
RS: Your previous novel, The Rainbow Acres, explored themes of displacement and belonging. Do you see any thematic continuity between the two books?
SD: The Rainbow Acres and The Song of Distant Bulbuls share the commonality of being blends of history and fiction, offering a unique reading experience. Both novels bring history alive, help us identify with voices, views and concerns from another time. They also build empathy, compassion and an appreciation of differences. The way I see it, both novels offer an enriching way of associating history with emotion and also present enduring historical lessons.
In the great tradition of the post-colonial hero, Stephen Dedalus, the protagonists of both novels, Kishan Singh and Sammi, are brave and rebellious characters who come of age during tumultuous times in history. Despite their struggles, they don’t give up on their quest of an authentic existence. They both embrace their individualities even if that means standing alone while never losing their human attributes of empathy and understanding.
RS: As someone who has studied and taught writing, how has your academic background influenced your approach to storytelling, especially in historical fiction?
SD: I think of myself foremost as being a storyteller. I have always felt a deep commitment to stories and cannot imagine a world without them. I lean towards historical fiction not only because of my academic background but because I feel there is much to be learned from the past. By connecting the past and the present to the future, historical fiction possesses the ability to transform lives. Enduring historical stories are relevant to all times and climes, inculcating an appreciation for diverse time periods, thereby fostering friendship and goodwill. Cultures across the world have striven to tell and preserve their stories through centuries. Stories of families and clans, of voyages and migrations, of love and loss, of invasions and conquests have informed our consciousness from time immemorial. I feel stories are the keys to survival. The most powerful stories draw generation after generation of readers to the wisdom and beauty of their timeless messages. As a committed storyteller, I aspire to tell stories that will awaken readers to the universality of anguish and joy.
Thank you Simrita, for taking time out to talk about your book with The Wise Owl. We wish you the best in all your creative endeavours.
About Simriti Dhir


Simrita Dhir, a Duke of Edinburgh Gold Standard Awardee. Simrita received her PhD in American Literature from the Department of English and Cultural Studies, Panjab University, Chandigarh. She now lives with her husband and their son in San Diego, California, where she studied Advanced Rhetoric at the Department of Rhetoric & Writing Studies, San Diego State University. Simrita lectures at the Warren Writing Program, University of California, San Diego, and is the author of the novel The Rainbow Acres.
A doctorate in English literature and a former bureaucrat, Rachna Singh has authored Penny Panache (2016) Myriad Musings (2016) Financial Felicity (2017) & The Bitcoin Saga: A Mixed Montage (2019). Her book, Phoenix in Flames, is a book about eight ordinary women from different walks of life who become extraordinary on account of their fortitude & grit. She writes regularly for National Dailies and has also been reviewing books for the The Tribune for more than a decade. She runs a YouTube Channel, Kuch Tum Kaho Kuch Hum Kahein, which brings to the viewers poetry of established poets of Hindi & Urdu. She loves music and is learning to play the piano. Nurturing literature & art is her passion and to make that happen she has founded The Wise Owl, a literary & art magazine that provides a free platform for upcoming poets, writers & artists. Her latest book is Raghu Rai: Waiting for the Divine, a memoir of legendary photographer, Raghu Rai.
About Rachna Singh

Talking Books
Click Hyperlink to read other interviews


Talking Books
Anmol Sandhu talks to Sonia Chauhan about her book This Maze of Mirrors
Hi Joanna. Thanks for talking to The Wise Owl
RS: Your collection of Cherita ‘river lanterns’ has been released recently. Our readers would be eager to know (as I am) what inspired you to write this beautiful collection of 90 virgin Cherita.
JA: I have been published in Ai Li’s Cherita journals for a while and love writing in this form. I mentioned in my email correspondence to Ai Li that I aspired to have my own Cherita collection published. She offered to edit my selection of poems from a large selection that I sent her. I would say my inspiration came from reading Ai Li’s own collections of her Cherita verse, they are so beautiful.
When I began writing these, I was mindful to really show me as not only a writer but as the person beneath and how the Cherita form bends to the art of storytelling. It took me some time to write these and I am delighted with the narrative that Ai Li made with her choices for my book. When another person chooses, they can distance themselves from your work and look critically at what you have sent. It was a real honour for me to entrust the creator of the Cherita with my work.
RS: Your book is a collection of Cherita verse. Cherita is a genre of recent origin (1997). Tell us what attracted you to this genre of poetry. Were there any creative influences in your life that encouraged you to adopt this genre as your own.
JA: I am attracted to this genre of poetry as I hold a deep reverence for Ai Li’s poetry and the short form poetry forms as a collective. I was excited to see that Ai Li had developed this new genre. She published my short form verse in the 1990s in her journal Still and I was sad when this was no longer in print. I enjoyed the challenge of learning how to write this new form and find it really resonates with me as a writer.
I discovered her new form of Cherita and was hooked by these story gems. I really admire the way that the Cherita journals are produced and enjoy reading the work within these. As a writer it is important to keep on working at your craft and I love it when I get to enjoy the work of a fellow poet in the same genre.
RS: River Lanterns has been edited and published by ai li, the creator of Cherita as a genre. How was the experience of connecting with the doyen of Cherita and having her select your Cherita?
JA: As I mentioned earlier Ai Li had published my work in the 90s, then through offering Cherita to her for publication, the connection was reborn. I have always enjoyed reading Ai Li’s poetry and I have found her to be a gracious supporter of my Cherita. Sending my work to the creator of the genre I think really made me conscious that I had to elevate my writing to meet the standards to have enough quality Cherita for my own individual collection. The experience is something that I will treasure as I now have a collection published other people can enjoy and will hopefully encourage them to do the same.
RS: Cherita is said to be a unique form of storytelling…storytelling in 6 lines. M Kei says that Cherita verse ‘combine the evocative power of tanka with the narrative of a personal story, like the vignettes we glimpse as we sit in a café and watch the world go by.’ Do you agree ? For the benefit of the readers would you please elaborate on this.
JA: Yes, I think M Kei’s insight is correct. Cherita to me contain the voice/song/whispers around the campfire as the stories unfold. They can be written about such a wide range of experiences, focused through the lens of the individual. I love the power of tanka, and I see Cherita as a close cousin, both forms use beautiful language to sing a fragment of the world that we live in.
RS: I feel what differentiates Cherita from narrative storytelling, is that it tells a story about life & our spiritual journey. This is very true of your Cherita:
have you
found it yet
the fun arcade
where wishes
are the alchemy
of breath
What are your thoughts on this?
JA: Yes, I feel a real connection with Cherita and my spiritual side. This is an element that attracts me to using this form. It allows me to explore and highlight aspects that may not be accepted in other types of verse. The Cherita can be used as a blank canvas for me to embed my perspective of my inner and outer world through stories.
RS: What are the themes or stories you have touched upon in your various Cherita verse?
JA: Where to begin… The Cherita in this collection provides a map of my highs and lows. They reveal how I see the world and feel about it. I enjoy adding elements of fairytales, myths, rich imagery, and aspects of the natural world. The importance of love, loss, friendship, connections, truth etc. all are within. The Cherita captures a moment of beauty, in time, often of universal things that happen to all of us but told from the narrator’s perspective. Often there is a vein of spirituality running through the verse.
RS: There are some cherita terbalik also in your collection. For the benefit of our readers please tell us how this form is different from Cherita and why we need a different syllable arrangement for this form of poetic storytelling
JA: The Cherita terbalik also tells a story but ‘terbalik’ is the Malay word for upside down or reversal (https://www.thecherita.com/) It is a different arrangement of the original Cherita stanza format. By using another variation of the Cherita format it enables the writer to alter the flow of the story that they are telling, such as the example from my collection below:
the ruby shoes
the glass slipper
the fairy dust
as a child
I imagined all
in my cupboard
To me this verse is stronger with the terbalik arrangement. Writing Cherita I make a judgement as to which stanza suits the flow of the story.
RS: Do you also write in other genres like haiku, senryu, tanka, haibun on a regular basis? Which is your favorite genre among all these genres (we know your fondness for Cherita of course)
JA: Yes, I also write in other genres such as haiku, senryu, tanka, Haibun and other short form verse. I began writing contemporary poetry first and then I discovered haiku when I was looking for poetry journals to read and subscribe to. I fell in love with haiku and feel that they are the guardians of nature and our world. I find short form poetry very special; these dewdrops of tiny forms really capture a sense of the world around us.
I see the bonds between these genres as strings from the same bow –
the heart harp
wind and rainfall
skeins from sky
this humming
of a melody
our soul bonds
Selecting a favourite is like asking a parent to choose a child. They all hold a place in my heart. I began with haiku and then progressed to tanka – aspects of the heart. These are the two that led me into this world of short form poetry and were my entry point for exploring and discovering other genres. I wouldn’t like to be without any one of them as they each offer a different way to express aspects of the world and my own life journey.
RS: What advice would you give budding poets of Cherita verse?
JA: The advice I would give to writers of any verse is to READ, READ, READ. Study the form, work on your craft, support the journals that publish them – if you want to write them, then surely you will enjoy reading them. Write, keep on writing and honing, learning the form, find your own style/voice, make connections in the writing world – even if online and listen and appreciate editorial advice – they have a vast range of experience, and this is how you grow as a writer. The short form poetry world is a beautiful, supportive place. When you buy a journal that publishes Cherita verse or another genre, be open to learning and see how well other writers use the form. Try and buy the collections of writers that you admire, this keeps our writers’ world vibrant and alive.
Thank you, Joanna, for taking time out to talk to The Wise owl about your beautiful book. We wish you the best and hope you make this unique storytelling genre rich with your verse.
Thank you so much for asking me to talk to you.